Pattie Gonia: I think the solution, looking at every other social justice movement or movement-building movement throughout time, is to recenter joy. And I’m not saying, “Let’s go throw a party,” but I’m saying that if we want people to join this movement, we have to make it freaking fun. We have to.

Mike DiGirolamo: Welcome to the Mongabay Newscast. I’m your host, Mike DiGirolamo, bringing you weekly conversations with experts, authors, scientists, and activists working on the front lines of conservation, shining a light on some of the most pressing issues facing our planet, and holding people in power to account. This podcast is edited on Gadigal Land. This episode was co-produced with my colleague Basten Gokkon. Today on the newscast, we speak with professional drag queen and environmentalist Pattie Gonia. She joins me today to talk about her work as an environmental advocate, how she came to use drag artistry to inspire nature advocacy, and how she raised over $1 million for nonprofits by marching a hundred miles completely in drag into San Francisco for her final live show of 2025. But the substance of this interview hits on something the environmental space arguably needs more than ever now: joy, support, and inclusion. Pattie explains to me how she sees the environmental space and how its messaging can be improved, bridging divides among people who may not seem to have much in common. Similar to my conversation with Willow Defa, Pattie speaks to the importance of culture as a pathway to communicating the importance of nature and how we as humans are connected to it, connected to each other by it. There’s a lot to say about this conversation, but the most significant parts highlight how much in common we as humans all have, and how joy and having fun can bring us together to advocate for our rights as humans and our right to a livable, breathable world, and to identify what the real roadblocks are, rather than fighting with each other. Pattie Gonia, welcome to the Mongabay Newscast. It is a pleasure to have you with us.

Pattie: Thank you so much for having me. I’m honored.

Mike: So the first thing I want to talk about with you, Pattie, is that you backpacked from a hundred miles north of San Francisco into the city to raise over $1 million for environmental nonprofits. And I just want to say, you achieved this goal, and congratulations. Can you talk to us about your journey? How did it go, and how do you feel now that you’ve completed it?

Pattie: My feet still hurt, but it was worth it. It was so worth it. It was such a needed experience for me to remember that many people working together towards a common goal can really make change happen. And I think we’re seeing that all over the climate movement. I think capitalism and the powers that be destroying this planet want us to believe that apathy is the only answer, that we can’t make change happen. But 33,000 people donated to this fundraiser as I backpacked over a hundred miles, and we raised more than $1.2 million for climate orgs, for queer-led orgs, for organizations that were getting their funding stripped from the Trump administration here in the U.S. So it was a really important reminder to me, and I think to everyone, that the people united will never be defeated, and we have more power than we think.

Mike: I have one small question. You made update videos in between days and you were perfectly dressed, and I just wanted to ask, how difficult was that to accomplish?

Pattie: It was ridiculous. So for those that don’t know, I was hiking all of these 100 miles in drag. So full wig, full makeup, full outfit, no heels, because that would be crazy and unsafe. But it was so fun. It was definitely nuts. I had planned on getting out of drag every night and into drag every morning, and I just decided to stay in drag the whole time. So I literally just kept repairing the makeup on my face, an imperfect painting, and the wig stayed very well because my wig stylist is incredible, and the power of some good hairspray. But on the final day, when we hit bad weather and lots of wind, everything got trashed. So it was good.

Mike: It was amazing. And I believe those videos are still on your Instagram, so for those interested, go check them out. But for listeners who are tuning in right now who aren’t familiar with your work, can you give us a brief history of how it is you came to do what you do?

Pattie: Sure. So as all good things in this world, Pattie Gonia was born out of a quarter-life crisis. So I had a career as a photographer, and I loved it until I really didn’t, and I knew something had to change. And at the time I was out of the closet as a gay person, but I had a lot of healing to do in my gay journey because when I came out of the closet, being from the Midwest in America, a very rural place, I was told that I could be accepted as a gay person, but only if I acted a certain way, if I presented in a certain way. And so in my quarter-life crisis, I decided to get into backpacking a lot, and backpacked all over Colorado, and decided to take this pair of six-inch high heels into the backcountry with me and birth a drag persona and Pattie Gonia. Yes, a lot of people know what I do now and know Pattie is a drag persona for other people, but it’s also been a really personal journey for me of healing, of encountering my femininity, of encountering incredible activists, advocates, community organizers, organizations making a difference at the grassroots level in the outdoors. And I think it’s really showed me the power of a connection to nature. I think capitalism and a lot of negative forces on this planet want us to be disconnected from nature by design. So I think it’s a pretty radical act to go outdoors and fall in love with yourself and fall in love with nature because we fight for what we love. So I am really thankful for that reconnection to nature and really thankful for all the people that have come into my life. And six years later we are hobbling on the trail still as Pattie Gonia.

Mike: We’re going to talk about the importance of the context and the setting in which you do your work. I wanted to ask you about something you said in past interviews. You described the importance of finding your people to check in with. I was wondering if you can talk about why this is so important, and what context it can manifest in, whether it’s in an outdoor community or in another setting.

Pattie: Yeah. I think that anyone who advocates for something, fights for something in this world, maybe swims a little bit upstream, can often feel like you’re swimming alone. I know I can. So I think it’s really important to have people that you can check in with to know that you’re not alone in doing work like this, or also just have different people to bounce ideas back off of. I think one of the biggest surprises for me in doing more climate work is that it’s way more community-based than I would’ve ever thought it would be. So I feel really grateful for community, for people that I can ask questions with, check in with, and this is how nature does problem-solving too. Like the best solutions in nature happen when people work collaboratively, ecosystems work collaboratively. So that’s what I want to be doing.

Mike: Something you mentioned is that environmental work, the climate work you do, reflects truly who we are. We’re more motivated to do it and make it a longstanding piece of our lives. And I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I just wanted to say thank you for carrying that torch forward. You bring a lot of truth, inclusivity, and acceptance to a space that really needs it. And there is something to the fact that when you see people like yourself participating in and being represented in this type of advocacy, you feel more welcome to that space. How has that been for you to witness, when other people see you and appreciate you and feel inspired to jump in and do this work?

Pattie: I think what the world needs now more than ever are unlikely combos, and really people using who they are and what they’re good at to fight for what they believe in on this planet, because those are the best solutions. That is the work that we, and only we, can do. And I think for so long I thought that I had to stop being who I was or stop doing what I was good at to just start climate organizing or protest organizing or X, Y, or Z, when really the secret was me embracing every little bit of my individuality, my unique connections, my privileges, my identity, my resources, the actual skills I have, because again, that is work that only I can do. So I think while people can look at me and be like, “Wow, a drag queen, a community organizer for climate, like that is weird,” it actually is the perfect summation of everything I’m good at. Because drag lets me community organize. It lets me perform. It lets me say something. It lets me realize that I have queens ahead of me in history who have been at this for way longer than me, and makes me a part of this drag family. So I want everyone to feel like they can embrace who they are. Because I think that, again, a lot of these systems of power really try to strip us of our power by making us these homogenized ecosystems, right? Like we can look at the green perfect grasses and the perfect American-dream lawn as a perfect example of capitalism’s dream of what an ecosystem looks like: a monoculture, stripped of all diversity. And I’m like, baby, we need to plant those gardens again. We need biodiversity. Ecosystems that have biodiversity thrive. Ecosystems that don’t have biodiversity die.

Mike: It makes me wonder what other sectors are out there, where there are people who might feel a pull towards this work, but might feel like they aren’t in a place or on a platform to do it. So for someone listening right now who doesn’t feel like they have a place in environmental advocacy, what would you like to say to them? What words would you like them to hear?

Pattie: A few things come to mind, and the most real thing is: I am sorry. Because the environmental movement has failed you. I think that a lot of the environmental movement’s messaging has been to just fall in line, or has been that you can’t make a difference if you’re not a millionaire, if you don’t own a company, or if you don’t have influence. And the reality is everyone can make unique action happen. And I want an environmental movement that preaches that, that preaches diversity, that preaches problem-solving, that preaches not lateral oppression, but collective fighting upwards. So I’m sorry that the environmental movement has failed you. That’s a lot of what I’m trying to work against. Because I think the environmental movement is privileged as hell. I think it’s disconnected as hell. I think it is equally problematic as a lot of other movements. Now, what I also want to remind people is that the power of little daily changes adds up to a completely different world. The world to me is not dying, but a version of the world is dying, a version that is very unequal and very inequitable, and I think we need to remember that we have all the solutions. We just have to start acting on them. We need to remember to look for the helpers. We need to remember that we can do this, that boycotts do work, that people united will never be defeated. This is how ecosystems create change. Ecosystems work together. We have to do that. So that’s what I want to remind people.

Mike: That was beautiful. Thank you for saying that. And piggybacking off of that, something that’s always bothered me is this disconnect that people feel between science communication and everyday human rights. It feels like there’s a chasm there. And to me, science and human rights are linked. In my work, nothing has affirmed that more than doing the work I’ve been doing. So I feel that how we communicate science matters, not just to nature, but to our rights as human beings. So what are the most important things about science communication to you, and how do you prioritize that in your work?

Pattie: I want to shout out every single woman in STEM and every single queer person in STEM, in science, because I think that, again, there’s so much toxic masculinity even in the sciences. And I think at the root of everything—whether it’s the lapses in communication, the disconnect in the climate movement and science movement, our disconnect in human rights and social justice movements, and then wealth inequality, the billionaires that are destroying this planet for profit, and all the politicians that support them—at the root of all of it is toxic masculinity. So for me, I look at strong female leaders and I see so much in them, and I see how much they are connecting science with more of a human lens. I think about Robin Wall Kimmerer, the author of Braiding Sweetgrass, as an excellent example of someone who straddles that world. If people haven’t read that book, I highly recommend it because we need more of that connection between science and the human world. Because I think at the root of this too, again, that disconnection— a lot of quote-unquote Western religion that is at the root of colonization disconnects humans from nature. We’re separate from nature, we’re holier than, we’re divine, we are the lucky ones, we’re separate from, when really we’re a part of. And I think that if we can get back to realizing that nature is a relative and not a resource, a lot can change. I think right now we’re really seeing nature as that resource, but if we saw it as a relative, we would never treat it the way that we do. So yeah, I think a lot about that. I think it’s by design. I think science can be a very Western lens. And all my climate baddies over there fighting for that area of climate science, I have so much respect for you. And also, I personally am interested in how we can look at nature and how it problem-solves. And I think a big way I look at that is through queerness. Because I think when people hear “queer nature,” they often think, “Okay, two gay lions,” two males who have sex. And I’m like, no. Queerness is the way in which a dandelion will find a way to sprout and spring life and bloom in the middle of a concrete sidewalk. Queerness is the way in which a tree will bend this way and that way to find light. Queerness, to me, is not survival of the fittest and the strongest. It’s survival of the fit. It’s survival of what can provide that missing link in the ecosystem. That is magic to me, and that’s what I think we need more of in our movement.

Mike: That’s probably the most beautiful definition of that word I’ve heard. So thank you for sharing that with me. I want to go back and talk about drag artistry. There’s something very joyful about drag, and there’s also something really joyful about being outside. And both together—it’s something that a lot of people may not have connected the dots on at first. Can you talk about drag artistry and how your craft is shaped by and integrates nature?

Pattie: Sure. Oh my gosh. One of my favorite things to talk about. Okay, so for any listener who’s maybe new to drag: drag is an art form that queer people often use, but not just queer people use, to bend gender in different ways, to present different gender norms or gender presentation. It’s fun. It’s a playground. It’s a space where anything is possible. Traditionally, it’s performed by people who were assigned male at birth dressing up as female, but drag kings exist. So while I’m a drag queen and I’m someone who performs drag in a more feminine world—though it’s getting more gender-bendy every day—there are also drag kings, there are drag things, and really, again, it’s this playground where we’re not making fun of women or making fun of men. It’s saying that everything is drag. If you watch a pro wrestling match, babe, that is more drag than I’m normally doing on the daily in drag. That is a performance of gender—extreme masculinity, a flexing of muscle, a theater act. It’s fun. We enjoy it. Drag is everywhere. So for me, the way that I do drag is I’ll often have my drag be inspired by different queer elements in nature, or I’ll have my drag be inspired by taking traditionally very masculine outdoor outfits or gear and upcycling it into new, very femme, very queer things. And for me, my goal with drag is that, by expressing myself in such an overt way, I want people to feel the freedom to express themselves in whatever way they want, outside and in. That’s my dream with drag. That’s how I do drag. And I often do that drag outdoors, often in heels. However, I’m trying to be respectful to my ankles and my thirties. But it’s fun, and it’s definitely an art form that has taught me a lot about myself, a lot about my identity, a lot about my queerness, a lot about my femininity, and has, I think, really made me a better leader, a better organizer, because I can tap into the feminine way more than my masculine, and it feels healthier.

Mike: Have any other drag performers come to you and talked to you about the influence and impact you’ve had on them? Or have any of them told you how it maybe has altered their perception of nature and humans’ relationship to nature?

Pattie: Yeah, more than drag artists coming to me, I think one of the most impactful experiences for me was when Pattie was born: the hundreds of scientists, researchers, park rangers that reached out to me and were like, “Hi, I am queer, and I am doing an ice field research study in the middle of nowhere, Alaska, and our Pride this year is me and two other queer people, and we’re celebrating from our huts.” So sick. I think the narrative, writ large in America and also globally, is that queer people run to cities for acceptance. And I think a lot of people have forgotten how many queer people run the opposite way into the forest. And I feel really grateful to provide whatever I do for those people, because those are my people. Whether it’s drag performers or other people, it’s been one of the biggest treats of what I do to get to meet other people, and it’s been really cool. Like, we now tour our drag show across the U.S. and it sells out, and it’s crazy. And I get to work with a lot of these more non-traditional drag artists who are more those outdoor girls and boys. It’s fun.

Mike: That’s a rare instance to see you amass a community of researchers or academics in the field who are coming to you and saying, “Hey, thank you.” And it feels like—what am I going with this question? I guess it’s more of a comment. Maybe I should cut this one out. Sorry.

Pattie: Your experience. This is me, half my interviews.

Mike: Yeah. No, I just want to say it’s very interesting to see, and it gives me a sense of hope. Because for a long time, covering these topics, I feel like it’s a subject where people go, “Oh, you care about nature, you care about the climate.” And it’s like, I care about the continuation of human society. And it feels like you’re bridging a gap between culture and nature, and I just think that is such an important thing to do.

Pattie: Yeah.

Mike: And I wish more people were doing it. So I was wondering if you could talk about this: are there any specific artistic mediums or other areas of culture where you want to see more of this—more culture connecting with nature? More drag representation? Or do you feel there’s great potential in other mediums for stuff like this to happen?

Pattie: Such a good question. The answer is yes and yes. And I think that—for the last decade or so—the environmental movement has chosen to see itself as separate from and different from everything else. And it’s really siloed itself off into a really incestual world that doesn’t invite culture in, that doesn’t bake itself into other worlds, that is just this insular environment that’s often gatekept by $1,000, $2,000, $3,000 tickets to Climate Week events, et cetera, et cetera. And I say: fuck that. I so do not want to be a part of that. I go to Climate Week every year and we throw our drag show there and sell it out with 1,500 people, and I don’t go to a single one of those events because I don’t stand for that. I really think there’s so much opportunity to intersect the climate movement with food, with the outdoors, with different political-leaning ways that people get outdoors. The outdoor communities need to start working together, because we have hunters over here and we have little liberal L.A. girlies over here, and we’re all actually fighting for the same thing. And we have more in common with each other than we do with these billionaires who are profiting off all of it. So how about we work together across culture? That is, I think, where the opportunity lies. Now doing that is way harder said than done. But I want to see more climate messages baked into music, art, food, community. I want it to be second nature to fight for nature. I want it to be second nature to care for the spaces that are in our backyard. And I want it to be accessible for people. I want people to have the free resources to be able to get connected locally, which is why a lot of my work on the backend is setting up resources like we have queeroutdoors.net, which is a completely free resource where queer people and allies can either post jobs that are queer-friendly or volunteer opportunities that are queer-friendly, and queer people can find those. It’s amazing. Again, it’s free, so please use it. And then also supporting financially other tools like Everywhere Is Queer, which is this worldwide map of queer-owned businesses, volunteering groups, and also community groups. So people can find hiking groups, people can find nonprofits in their backyard to get plugged in with, because I really think we’re sold this lie of connection via social media, but we’re more disconnected than ever. We just need to put the phones down and get outside and connect with these amazing organizations that are in our backyard, and I think we’re going to see a way different future happen.

Mike: Hello listeners, and thanks once again for tuning in. It’s 2026 and a new year is upon us. If you missed any episodes from last year and you don’t know where to start, you can see our top 10 most listened to podcasts of 2025. For some of our most compelling conversations, I’ve compiled a list and you can find that in the show notes. And if you already caught those episodes and you have some feedback for our show, you can let us know what you think by filling out our podcast survey that is also linked in the show notes. Thank you very much, and back to the conversation with Pattie Gonia. The through line that you’re identifying is something I really appreciate. You’re letting us know that this division between everyday people is really the thing that’s holding us back from holding massive corporations and governments accountable. And one of the things my co-producer on this admires about your advocacy is how you hold those in power across sectors and industries accountable for their environmental harm, while also connecting us together with simple personal ways to be eco-conscious. Can you talk about some of the ways that you do this? Like, you have a business where you repurpose thrifted clothing with your official merchandise. What are some other ways that you do this?

Pattie: Yeah, at the root of everything that I’m trying to do is: when I see what’s happening in this world and when the news makes me want to burn it all down, instead of burning it all down, I want to ask myself, “What will we build?” Because I think that, again, people in power rely on us just wanting to burn it down, and being so busy burning it down that we’re not busy building. And I want to be building solutions that work. And that isn’t because I want to ignore these problems, but actually, that is what resistance is: building. And if we look at how social change happens for people or for the planet, I’m thinking about the work of Deepa Iyer, whose model recognizes that we need caregivers, we need builders, we need frontline responders, we need organizers, and everyone has an equal role to play. And yeah, I really want to strive for a world where we think about what we’re building and we work together to build that. Because I think when it comes time to be like, “Okay, you’re right, I don’t want to destroy, I want to build. How do I build?” it’s: look for the helpers. Find the helpers. Don’t do it alone. Find people in your community at a local level to build with, and your world will never be the same.

Mike: And there’s another thing that we really appreciate, me and my producer. We really appreciate your unwavering belief that climate justice must support the liberation of oppressed communities from war, colonization, genocide, and that kind of advocacy can really take a mental toll and a physical toll. So how do you sustain the physical and mental endurance needed to carry such a holistic and demanding advocacy?

Pattie: Good question. I think of a few things. I think when it comes time to speak out or act out against social justice issues, specifically genocide and war that’s been happening in the past few years in so many areas across the world, I think about this: while people might not like the way that I’m talking about something, it’s better to say something than to say nothing at all. And it’s better to take action than to do nothing at all, because what I try to remind myself is that doing nothing is doing something. Inaction is an active choice. And so if I don’t do anything, I’m siding with the oppressor. And that’s been a social justice story since the beginning of time: divide and conquer, silence is complicity. I know because of my queer elders who do drag and who founded the queer liberation movement and founded Pride as we know it today—Pride was founded because there was a whole generation of gay men and women and trans people who were dying of AIDS, and no one wanted to join that fight. But Pride and drag queens and trans people offered an opportunity to join that movement through love and to take action. And now the world’s in a very different place. So I think we need to remember that we’ve been here before, and what’s going to get us through is working together. I think it’s important to look at history for the way that we can get to those solutions faster, because we know the way is working together. Again, working together laterally to fight vertically. And to me, again, because I see humans as a part of nature, it’s a no-brainer to act up, stand up, do everything I can. And also, you asked a very important question, which is how I do this over time, because I’ve seen it really beat people down and I’ve seen it really beat myself down, is: the environmental movement loves to throw this word out—sustainability. Think about sustainability with our reusable water bottles. How in the hell are we thinking about sustainability when it comes to the work that we are doing, or the fighting that we are doing? That’s the sustainability I think we should actually be focused on. So for me, it looks like taking a freaking break. For me, it looks like getting outside. For me, it looks like not working all the time, because I can’t run forever. I need to pace myself. It is a marathon, not a sprint. And there’s also unbelievable privilege baked into that. Like I am a white, straight-passing person living in America. I am so lucky to be able to take breaks. But because I’m able to take breaks, I want to fight even harder. Yeah. So I think it’s really interesting to me socially how the environmental movement has really preyed on a lot of people who feel really guilty for living their life. And when I say environmental movement, I also mean these terrible corporations. For example, carbon footprint, baby—that was an advertising agency creating this concept of the carbon footprint to sell you the belief that you and your impact was actually the problem, not the oil company that is doing 70,000 times the carbon emissions that you would in your lifetime in one day. Also, I think the environmental movement has really preyed on, especially women, especially people who have been excommunicated from churches, or ex-Christian specifically—and I’m ex-Christian too—people that feel guilt for even existing because “we’re sinners and we’re all going to go to hell,” and it’s co-opted us into this movement of “yeah, you also need to feel guilty.” No, babe. I don’t feel guilt. I feel motivated. My privilege is not something that I feel guilty about. It’s something that motivates me to take more action. It’s productive. That’s what I want for all of us. Because I don’t feel ashamed for what I do. I’m a very imperfect person. I definitely have a carbon footprint. And also, I’m not going to let that stop me. I’m not going to let getting on a plane and going to lead a climate protest stop me because, oh, I’ve taken a flight—enough of that. We’re way past that point. So I want people to feel not guilted, but inspired.

Mike: And piggybacking on that, have you ever felt distracted or perhaps even derailed from your efforts, from your pursuit in joy, advocacy, environmental justice, and if so, what did you do to get back on that path?

Pattie: Yeah. I’m a human being who gets derailed every day, because my attention span is that of a little tiny cat. I get derailed by forces that be who—when I talk about Gaza—I am losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of potential sponsored work. Like, I’m derailed often. But again, queerness shows me that how something adapts to survive, that’s the end to live for. There’s definitely a way to adapt to survive. And again, if I can get through the last— I use this as a reference point often—if I can get through the past five years, I can do anything. If we can get through the last five years, we can do anything. Again, the solutions are there. We just have to start taking action on them. We can’t feel guilt. We have to feel inspired to take action. We have to know that doing nothing is doing something, and we have to remember: yeah, we’ve been here before, and what’s gotten us through is collaboration. That’s how nature works. That’s the only way to do it.

Mike: You’ve actually said it on this podcast already, and I’ve heard it said by other people as well, that action works and people united will never be defeated. And it feels like we could really use some words of encouragement, particularly those of us who have felt deflated by the constant barrage of environmental setbacks. There’s a lot of people who listen to this podcast who work in the environment, they work for nonprofits, or they are academics, or researchers, or people working in the field. What words would you like to leave them with?

Pattie: What a good question. I think it’s really important for all of us that work in the quote-unquote climate movement, or do this work as a primary use of our time, to recognize that right now the climate movement is flopping. And yes, it’s flopping because it doesn’t have the support from our government—of course it doesn’t, because money and politics will keep siding with billionaires who are destroying this planet. But so what do we do? Because the movement is not only flopping from that side, but it’s also flopping because it’s been really incestual, it’s been really siloed, really closed off, really exclusive, and really homogenous. And I think the solution, looking at every other social justice movement or movement-building movement throughout time, is to recenter joy. I’m not saying let’s go throw a party, but I’m saying that if we want people to join this movement, we have to make it freaking fun. We have to. And I want people to know that joy is a serious way to take action because joy is strategic. Joy is an inside job. Everyone can do something to create joy. There’s no person I love more at a climate protest than the person that brings the baked goods, the cookies, the banana bread. There’s nothing I love more than hearing that my friend, who’s an accountant, has some spare hours, and so they’re just going to start doing some accounting for a local climate nonprofit. There’s nothing that I love more than someone who works in the climate movement who says, “You know what? I can’t work 60-hour weeks anymore. I need to get outside and reconnect with nature and fall in love with nature again. Otherwise, I can’t do this.” I love that. I love a break. I love a hiatus. Go for it. We need joy. It’s the only way that movements catch fire, and it is magnetic as hell. And I think that’s what’s going to take us to a new world, because the problem in the climate movement isn’t just the abundance of carbon, it’s the lack of joy. So let’s get joy on center stage again.

Mike: Pattie Gonia, where can people follow you and find more information about the work you do?

Pattie: You can follow me on all socials if you would like. It is crazy over there. But it’s just Pattie Gonia on all platforms. And yeah, you can also see me if we’re touring near you. So much of my strategy for joy for this year is to stop focusing online and to start focusing on making spaces in person. So we’re making 25-plus different shows or community spaces this year, programming for 80,000-plus people. I hope you’re one of them. It would be so fun to have some joy with you.

Mike: Pattie Gonia, thank you for speaking with me today. It’s been a pleasure.

Pattie: Thank you so much.

Mike: If you want to find Pattie Gonia’s work, you can find her on Instagram at Pattie Gonia or at pattiegonia.net. As always, if you’re enjoying the Mongabay Newscast or any of our podcast content and you want to help us out, I encourage you to spread the word about the work we do on this show by telling a friend and also leaving a review. Doing this helps elevate our profile and brings us to a wider audience. But if you want to support us more directly, you can become a monthly sponsor to the podcast through our Patreon page at patreon.com/mongabay. Did you know that we’re a nonprofit news outlet? So even if you pledge a dollar per month, it goes directly to helping us offset production costs. So if you’re a fan of our audio reports from Nature’s Frontline, go to patreon.com/mongabay to learn more and support the Mongabay Newscast. You can also read our news and inspiration from [email protected], or follow us on social media: find Mongabay on LinkedIn at Mongabay News, and on Instagram, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Facebook, and TikTok, where our handle is @Mongabay, or on YouTube at Mongabay TV. Thank you as always for listening.